Chrissy Kennedy, the Women’s Ministry Director at our West Congregation, leads the conversation with three partners from West: Franny Pullin, Lindsay Funkhouser, and Ashley Wright.
The Women's Cast is the podcast of the Women’s Ministry at The Austin Stone. This year we’re focussing on the theme of holiness. In this episode of the series we focus on holiness and spiritual gifts.
Chrissy Kennedy, the Women’s Ministry Director at our West Congregation, leads the conversation with three partners from West: Franny Pullin, Lindsay Funkhouser, and Ashley Wright. They wrestle with what spiritual gifts are for, the encouragement to pursue them, and the pitfalls of focussing on them at the expense of pursuing holiness.
Resources Mentioned:
Hi, everyone.
This is Chrissy Kennedy, and I serve as the Women's Ministry Director at our West Congregation.
I'm so excited to be here with a few really great women from our West Congregation for our conversation today.
I will introduce them in a bit, but want to talk a little bit more about what is to come on our episode today and recap our last episode where we discussed holiness and wholeness.
How we have been set apart from and set apart for something unique in our physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual nature.
We discussed how important spiritual disciplines are as we pursue holiness.
What a great place to start as we venture into our discussion today on holiness and spiritual gifts.
Not only do we experience positional holiness, as we have talked about before, but growth in holiness through many aspects of sanctification in our lives.
Through spiritual gifting, the Holy Spirit is tangibly manifesting His power in our life for the purpose of building up His bride.
Today, we're going to have an opportunity to dive into spiritual gifts and how this is a beautiful part of the way that God made us.
Not only is it used to glorify the Lord, but also to lift up the body of Christ, in return making us look more like Him.
To start us off all on the same page, let's take a moment to get a good grasp on what spiritual gifts are and what they're intended for as we dive into our conversation today.
Let's work through an adaptation of a definition Sam Storm used in his book, Understanding Spiritual Gifts.
He says, That was quite a mouthful.
So let's break that down just a little bit.
So first, spiritual gifts are a manifestation of the Holy Spirit's presence.
In 1 Corinthians 12:7, it says, "To each is given the manifestation of the Spirit."
This matters because it tells us the giver of gifts is never absent, but always present in our gift.
So the second part is spiritual gifts are a manifestation of the Holy Spirit's power.
1 Corinthians 12:4-6, "Now there are a variety of gifts, but it is the same God who empowers them all and everyone."
This means that a spiritual gift has no power in itself.
The third point, spiritual gifts enable us to effectively build up the church.
1 Corinthians 12:7, "To each is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good."
This means they are not meant mainly for personal growth.
They are always other-oriented.
This does not mean they won't impact us and our faith, but it does mean they are meant to be outward-facing first.
So the last point was spiritual gifts are expressed in ways that exceed our natural limitations and capabilities.
In Acts, when Peter and John were arrested and brought before Jewish leadership, it says that Peter was filled with the Holy Spirit and spoke boldly about who Jesus was.
Then it says, When they observed the boldness of Peter and John and realized they were uneducated and untrained men, they were amazed and recognized that they had been with Jesus.
God loves to give us gifts that far exceed our natural abilities in order to show the world that it could only be by the power of the Spirit.
I don't know about y'all, but I am blown away by the fact that the Holy Spirit chooses to give us these gifts.
He deeply desires to move through us by using us as individual parts of the body to build up the church and make his name great.
In return, we are then filled with joy.
With a better understanding of what spiritual gifts are, it makes sense that we would want to understand what our gifts are and how to grow in using them for the blessing of others.
But this is also where it can get complicated because of the sin and brokenness in all of us.
We don't always have the right motivation when it comes to using spiritual gifts.
We can so easily fall into the temptation of comparison, seeking our own praise or glory.
And just like any gift, it's easy to make them ultimate, turning them into idols.
We know God is at work in them, so we think it's the most important way he is working in us, which means we can forget that the primary thing he's doing in all believers is sanctifying us, making us look more like his son.
So ultimately, what we're going to talk through today is how does our pursuit of holiness impact our pursuit of spiritual gifts?
And on the flip side, how does our pursuit of using our spiritual gifts impact our pursuit of holiness?
Now that we have a bit of a foundation to start from, I would love to go ahead and introduce our guests today.
I have a few women from our West congregation to join us in this conversation.
We've got Frannie Pullen, Lindsay Funkhauser, and Ashley Wright.
Hi, ladies.
Hi.
I'm so glad that y'all are here with me today to discuss this topic.
Let's take just a few minutes for each of you to introduce yourselves.
Lindsay, you want to start us off?
Hi, I'm Lindsay.
I co-own a communication strategy company, and so I spend a lot of time with people and a lot of meetings every day.
I was on staff with The Austin Stone for about 17 years, working in everything from connections and hospitality to a writer development program and serving on a lot of different teams.
And I've been at West on and off since the O'Henry days, but really excited to be back at West and involved.
Hi, I'm Frannie Pullen, and I am a stay-at-home mom during the week and own a wedding photography business on the weekends.
My husband and I have been going to the West Campus since the end of 2020 and love serving and spending our Sundays there with everyone.
I'm Ashley Wright, and I've been going to West since it became West.
I was part of the church that became the West Congregation.
My husband and I have served the last number of years in marriage ministry, which has been a gift to us and hopefully a gift to our body.
I have two kids, Sutton and Fisher, who have a lot of personality, and you'll find running around and in the trees.
Awesome.
Well, thanks, guys, for introducing yourselves.
So we'll just jump right in.
To get us started, I would love to hear from you about what your experience has been with spiritual gifts in the church.
I can start.
As someone who worked in vocational ministry for a long time, I think I've consistently seen an enthusiasm from everyone, men and women, to know and understand what spiritual gifts are.
I think in different denominations and different backgrounds have varying views on spiritual gifts.
So I think some people are a little nervous about certain spiritual gifts.
Other people are really excited to figure out what theirs are and know how to use them in the church.
And so I think it's a good thing.
There's a lot of excitement and enthusiasm about learning about spiritual gifts.
But what I've also seen is maybe a fear or a hesitancy if people aren't sure what their spiritual gifts are.
They feel like they have to figure that out before they can jump in or before they can know how to best serve and honor God.
And I just think that can be really tricky to navigate sometimes, that difference between feeling confident in who God's made you to be and what your gifts are and seeing needs in the church.
But thinking my gifts don't meet those needs, so can I really serve there, which I'm sure you're going to want to talk more about, Chrissy.
So I think in general, there's a great enthusiasm and desire for knowledge, but maybe some uncertainty about really what it means to know and understand and use your gifts.
I'll go next and jump in because my experience has been different than what Lindsay described.
I feel that I have said yes and served and met a need in our body and through that service have discovered ways that God has gifted me and is choosing to use me.
And sometimes those ways have been surprising and sometimes they haven't.
For example, administrative administration is a gift that I would say that I have.
And I think that that has been built in the workplace through my job and my career, that I've used that in the church to run ministries.
And so that has been a gift that I knew I had, but God has used for his glory in our body.
Yeah, I think similarly for me, both Lindsay and Ashley, what y'all said, oftentimes I think for me it's looked like someone else maybe pointing out a strength or a gift they see in me and encouraging me to use that for a service or for a retreat or for a podcast or anything like that.
And so I think for me it's been a lot of honestly external factors encouraging me, which is encouraging me to then go and dive deeper into, okay, what are the things that maybe the Lord has given me?
Yeah, I would jump on board with Frannie too.
I think that when there has been a need, it hasn't been that I'm just walking around looking for needs.
It's that there's a need in the church and somebody has said, I think Ashley can meet that need.
And I'm approached to meet that need and say yes.
But I haven't really thought all that much about spiritual gifts until more recently.
Yeah.
So, I mean, that asked the question, why do y'all think it's important for Christians to know and understand spiritual gifts?
If we are called to just step in and serve the body, why do y'all think it's important to learn and grow?
I think first and foremost, it's important to know God's word and to love God and to love the church and want to serve the church.
And I think through that is an outflow of God has gifted each one of us with gifts for his purposes, his glory, the moving forward of his church.
And so, in some ways, yes, it's important to discover your gifts so that you can figure out how you can best be used in that mission.
But I think in some ways, that process can paralyze you to wanting to know your gifts before you serve.
And so I think it's yes and yes, it's important that you may learn more about your gifting by stepping out and serving.
And I think so many of the gifts are, yes, they're gifted to us, but we are also called as Christians to pursue many of those things.
We're called as Christians to grow in wisdom, but wisdom is a gift that he gives some.
That's an excuse.
Yeah, I think, Franny, you said it in your first answer about spiritual gifts that you were serving and people could see that and call out those gifts in you.
And I think if we're not actively in community serving around people, how are they going to see what's supernatural about our serving and our gifts?
Because I think, you know, that was such an important part of what you said in your definition, Chrissy, was spiritual gifts are something that are supernatural.
They're kind of above and beyond.
And I think one of the most important aspects to me when I see someone who's really operating in their spiritual gift, it feels supernatural.
It feels not in a comparative way, like I can never be as merciful as that person or as wise or as whatever.
But it's, wow, I can see God working in that person in a way that is doing something in me that makes me remember God is so much bigger than a situation or an amount of resources or a person or an idea.
And it feels like yet another testimony of who God is and how powerful he is.
And it doesn't discount people serving in a way that is not their spiritual gift.
But I just think it's, there's something supernatural about the level of encouragement and just presence of God when you see people in the church working together, operating in their different gifts.
Yeah, well, what would y'all say, do y'all have any stories you'd like to share about how you've seen gifts bless others in the church or you've been blessed by somebody's spiritual gifts?
I think for me, I have seen the Lord use the gift of mercy and service in my life since high school.
I can remember many friends walking through many hard things.
And I look back on those times and just know it was not me that had the endurance, that had the face, that had the encouragement.
Oftentimes I would leave hanging out with a person or just look back on that season and have no idea how I made it through and how I was able to walk through that.
And it wasn't until college when I was talking with someone and sharing kind of these stories that I had that they were able to look at that and point it out and say, oh, that's, that's a gift that you were able to do that.
That was the Holy Spirit working through you.
The fact that you didn't even know how, because it wasn't anything I was doing.
And so I think, yeah, that's a time in my life that I can look back on and see the Lord has used me in people's lives and hopefully have been glorifying him through that.
That's so great.
Because I think sometimes, I think sometimes a week for a question like this, we think of like those front facing, big, like strong teaching gifts.
But to be able to see those a little bit more behind the scene.
For me, I've got a really sweet friend.
I went through a lot of medical issues a couple of years ago.
And there were so many times I was in a place where I just, I was struggling.
And she was just, you could tell it was beyond just kind of the normal, I'm a good friend, I'm going to come and support.
But it was like she knew the words to say in the right moments.
And when I was in a low place, she would say the right words.
Or she would encourage me to go, you know, see a doctor or whatever it was.
And it was just for me, it was like, you are here and you love me.
You see me.
And so that's, that's what I also want to encourage as we talk about this conversation.
Like there's going to be those front facing gifts and behind the scenes gifts.
And I think sometimes it can be hard to see those behind the scenes gifts.
But I think that we are frequently impacted by them.
So I'd love to talk about what, what y'all see when we connect spiritual gifting and the pursuit of holiness.
How would you say you have grown in holiness of your Christian life, specifically through practicing your spiritual gifting?
For me, when I was first trying to figure out what my spiritual gifts are, or, you know, I'd been told I had certain gifts.
And I was like, I don't think I do.
I think people had told me, you know, I think you have the gift administration.
And I thought, I think I'm just a hard worker.
I don't actually think I have the gift of administration.
Turns out I don't.
I should pray for it though, right?
I should pray for more gifts.
But when I was first figuring out my gifts and trying to discern what was learned or what is just me trying to serve the church or what is supernatural from the Holy Spirit, it really produced a lot of insecurity in me.
When I would see other people, especially with maybe front-facing gifts and see how those were, you know, maybe held up a little bit higher or maybe that was just my mind twisting it.
And I would think, man, I wish I was gifted in that way.
And I would discount the gifts that God had given me.
And some of that was just me growing up and maturing in my 20s.
And some of it was, I think, just my own insecurity and my own tendency to compare.
And I, as the Lord used people in my life and mentors and just sanctification and other ways for me to grow up, I started to see the benefit through other people, like you all have mentioned, who had those kind of more behind-the-scenes gifts.
And I started to be served and impacted by them and started to see the value in them.
And I thought, I remember one day just thinking, I would never look at, you know, someone who's showing me mercy and think less of them than a gifted teacher.
Why am I doing that to myself?
And that was, of course, I think the Holy Spirit.
That wasn't just me.
And then through continued, you know, community and just growing up and learning God's Word more and just becoming more spiritually mature, I think my love for gifts and my love for using them for other people and pointing people to God through them and honoring God through them just continued to grow.
So I think in a lot of ways, I guess it kind of, my spiritual maturity kind of paired with my natural maturity in life.
But it really took a lot of community to come alongside me and help me see clearly so I wasn't getting caught up in my own head and comparing myself in ways that were unhealthy.
Yes, I think for me, holiness, exactly what you said, Lindsay, has been paired with just my maturity and growth with my faith, whether that's just through classes or through community, like you said.
I think as I was kind of preparing and reading through 1 Corinthians, it was helpful for me to be reminded that we're all empowered by the same spirit.
So if someone doesn't have an extra ounce of spirit more than I do, we're all empowered by the same spirit and all believe in the same God.
And so my gifts aren't worth less or are less important than others.
And so I think that's helped alongside my walk with holiness, knowing I can grow in all those things and pursue it without getting discouraged.
So gifts are not talents.
This is something I've learned recently, and I think it's shifted my perspective and how I think about gifts.
So when your gifts are being used out of an overflow of your personal holiness, your relationship with the Lord, when you're rooted in scripture and then serving his church, that's when your gifts are used most fully.
And then in that, that brings you great joy.
And that kind of roots you again back in the word and helps you grow in your relationship with the Lord.
And it's a cycle.
It's like you're growing in the Lord and serving his church and growing in the Lord and serving his church.
And it just, when it's working like that, it just brings you joy in the gospel, truly.
And whether it's front-facing and you're seeing people grow through your teaching, or it's administrative and stuff is just working easily, or even just faithfulness.
And you're not rocked and you see God's goodness despite challenging circumstances.
It just, one feeds the other.
What do you guys see as pitfalls that can come from being gifted with a front-facing gift or a behind-the-scenes one?
I think it's very much like a pendulum.
And I think you can swing to one side and easily be using your gifts to glorify the Lord and then get fed through that and then start to use your gifts to glorify you and they kind of become an idol.
Or it could be the other way and you're paralyzed maybe by not knowing your gifts or by not knowing how best to use your gifts to serve his church.
And I think when we read about spiritual gifts, a key word there is in love.
And it's like the in love piece reroutes both sides.
It's like the people who are paralyzed and kind of stuck and not knowing how best to use their gifts maybe add the in love piece and they're able to see how their gifts can serve others and they're able to step with more confidence into that.
When I think when I've grown prideful in seeing my gifts being used, when you root it back in love, the pride just kind of goes away and you see how it's not about you.
It's about God's glory.
And that's where you are most happy and filled with joy, not in of yourself.
And so I think pitfalls can be found on either side of where the pendulum swings.
And you're always having to like check yourself, which goes back to holiness.
Am I in the word?
Am I pursuing the Lord?
Am I praying about how God can use me and listening to what he's saying?
Yeah.
I mean, that's a good question for us maybe to talk about for a minute is how do we catch ourselves from those pitfalls?
What are some things that y'all do that keep you in that center place with your eyes in the right place?
Not looking down at yourself or running around in fear or anxiety.
But how do you guys stay in that center place that you described?
I think for me, a lot of it has to do with just saying yes to things and being obedient to saying yes to things from people that the Lord has spent my life.
I think there's a lot of spiritual gifts that I can easily try to opt myself out of just because it's not a strength.
For example, evangelism is not a strength of mine, I would say.
But being faithful to saying yes when a friend asks to go out and pray for people, even though it might make me uncomfortable and I might not feel like it is my most spiritual gifting.
I'm not getting caught on that end of being paralyzed just because it's not a immediate gift of mine or something that I would see right away.
I think for me, it looks like just being faithful to saying yes when I'm asked of things and even just saying yes to things that I think might grow me like this podcast.
I mean, yeah, I think Ashley mentioned prayer already.
That's a big one for me, just praying and trying to submit everything to the Lord, whether it's, you know, before I go and participate in small group or before I go teach something or before, you know, before I write something like I try to be mindful to just a quick little prayer.
Whether I'm using my gifts or not, it just helps me reorient kind of similar to what Franny is saying on the Lord.
Because I think something I try to be mindful of is if I start noticing the gift or the activity more, like if I'm thinking about that more than the Lord or more than the person I'm trying to serve or the audience I'm trying to serve, that's kind of a little flag to me that maybe I'm a little too focused on the gift or the thing I'm doing.
And I'm not really focused on, as Ashley said, you know, 1 Corinthians 13, like doing it in love and serving in love.
So I'm not a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.
But I'm there as a vessel that the Holy Spirit can use for a purpose, for a people.
And so, you know, feedback and thinking about things and reflecting is healthy.
But I think when you get stuck on the gift itself and how was I perceived and was I, you know, effective in a way that's very human, to me that's when I'm noticing I'm probably not in the center.
And when I'm not soaking that in prayer and I'm a little too focused on details that don't really matter.
I think that's another indication for me that I'm a little too focused on the thing, on the gift, maybe, than the giver.
That's good.
Do y'all find that there's a specific role in your life that community plays?
I mean, Franny, you talked about this before a little bit, but I'd love to hear y'all's thoughts on when it comes to these things.
What role does community have specifically when we're trying to, like, go back to that center space?
Have y'all experienced community helping you?
I mean, I experienced community preparing for this podcast.
I really struggled to identify my spiritual gifts and have never been confident in what they are.
And my husband literally went gift by gift and said, Who exemplifies this gift in your mind that we know?
And it was so helpful because we did get to a few that was like, Oh, maybe that is me.
You know, I do do that one.
And that was super helpful.
And then I was stuck on, Are my thoughts about this right?
Because it felt like I had a very contrarian heart about spiritual gifts, But also, you know, I also know what the Bible says about spiritual gifts.
So I know that they're real and that God is giving them to us.
And so I called Lindsay.
And I was talked through some of those thoughts that I had that felt like they were contradicting each other.
And she helped me.
And so I think community is so important as we think through these things, Spiritual gifts or anything that our faith is causing us to kind of have conflicting thoughts about our head and our heart or how we see this play out in our lives.
And I'll jump in and say that in working out what Ashley is talking about, she in turn, of course, encouraged me.
She was sharing a story about when she went through several hard times in her life.
And she has a gift of faith, as do I.
And she understood how that gift of faith played out in her own life because she just felt that, like, solidness of God underneath all the pain and all of the hurt.
And I've gone through the hardest year of my life in the last year, by far, by leaps and bounds, in basically every area of my life.
And I haven't really felt the presence of God in a year.
Like, I know he's there, but I don't feel him hardly at all.
But there's this thing at the very bottom, like this tiny little pinprick of light in the dark that I know he's real and I know he cares and I don't feel any of it, but I know it's true.
And I think that's the Holy Spirit.
And I think that's part of the gift of faith.
And I was having a conversation with the Lord one day in the hospital last year and just saying, Lord, it's so ironic that my number one gift is faith because I just don't feel like I have even the words to pray or to, like, believe for this, you know, some miraculous healing for my dad right now.
But I've done that for so many other people.
I've prayed.
I've seen people, you know, healed.
And I've seen just the Holy Spirit do incredible things that make no sense to me.
And yet I can't find that in myself.
And the Lord has led me on a wonderful journey of community encouraging me and supporting me.
But never once have I doubted who he is or that he's different than what he says.
And yet there's still that kind of piece of uncertainty of, like, is this faith being really a gift?
And then, you know, talking to Ashley last night on the phone and her sharing how that gift showed up for her in hard times.
It was just an encouragement and a reminder that, like, it is a gift.
It does matter.
The Lord is here.
He cares and knows and sees us.
And sometimes he even uses the gifts he's grown in us to encourage us and remind us who he is.
But I just love that, you know, she called me to process some things that I, like, 100% agreed with.
And then in turn didn't realize she was encouraging me the whole time.
Oh, that's great.
I feel like some of my gifts have been revealed by either me admiring a gift in somebody else and then pursuing that.
I cannot be gifted.
Like, God may not have gifted me in teaching.
Mm-hmm.
But I can admire teaching in somebody else and, like, try to learn it.
Mm-hmm.
And then maybe he will.
Maybe he won't.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You know?
Yeah.
That it's not, like, sin for me to pursue goodness in his body.
Right?
Like, and still growth.
Yeah.
You are only focused on your gifts as far as growth.
Right.
Yeah.
And that's really healthy.
Mm-hmm.
I think, too, I find myself seeing gifts in other women and thinking not just being encouraged by it, but seeing them use that gifting to the full potential and being blown away because I can see.
It's almost like I can tangibly see God.
It's like this.
This is a glimpse, just a glimmer of who you are.
I'm getting to see that in my sister.
And so, for me, it's like that's the person of my faith.
Because I know that that was beyond their human capability.
And it makes me love God more.
So, I think that, for me, I think is a big part of it, too.
Yeah, I think one of the ways that I've grown is I used to have this misperception that our gifts, whatever gifts were identified in us or we've identified, I sort of had to access them at maximum strength all the time or that they would always be available to me.
And that was somehow evidence that they were a gift or that that was God's power in me.
But there's that quote, and I can't remember who said it, but if supernatural things were always happening, they wouldn't feel supernatural.
Like big, miraculous, supernatural things, but things feel like miracles when they're abnormal.
And maybe the same with gifts.
If we were all serving in our gifts or accessing them for ourselves at maximum strength all the time, not only would it not be a spiritual gift because it would be for us instead of for loving and serving the church, but I don't think it would feel supernatural.
I don't think it would feel like that definition of spiritual gifts that you gave us in the beginning, Chrissy.
I think it would not honor God in a way of showing his presence and power in a unique way through the Holy Spirit, which increases our faith and increases our desire for Christ likeness.
And so that's been a long part of my journey that I don't know that I fully recognized until conversations like this.
But I think knowing that in some seasons, some of my gifts maybe won't show up because the Lord is not choosing to use them at that time.
But in other seasons, other gifts that I sort of forgot about might show up or they might look different.
I trust that that's for a purpose that the Lord knows that I don't know.
And so it also helps me back to Ashley, one of Ashley's original points, not get so caught up in just thinking about my gifts all the time and getting two in my head, but just being faithful to serve and love the body of Christ and trust that the Lord will bring out a gift when I need to use it and just act in his power and reveal things to people.
And then when he's not using those, I'll just faithfully serve and try my best and, you know, and live that way.
I think that's something I aspire to.
Yeah, that's so good.
I think the cultivation of our character and holiness is always that constant.
It's always that thing that is consistently growing.
And I think what you said, Lindsay, is so good because sometimes if we put too much weight on the way that our spiritual gifts are appearing or how often or how big, I think it can be really frustrating or make us feel like, wait, am I not in tune with the Holy Spirit or am I doing something wrong?
So I love that.
Thank you for sharing that.
We talk a lot about identifying gifts, but tend not to talk a lot about refining them.
What do you think about the idea of craving correction?
Why do you think it's so hard to crave correction?
And what do you think would change if we did?
Ashley asked me for feedback and correction last night on the phone, and I told her it's something I really admire about her.
She's one of the people consistently that always asks for correction and feedback and in a really open, honest way.
And I don't crave correction.
I mean, I receive it.
But, you know, that's it's craving.
I mean, craving correction is an amazing, I think, mark of growth.
And I'll receive correction all day long, but I don't actively seek it out in most circumstances because it's not fun.
Right.
It doesn't feel good.
But I think Ashley is one of those people that I know she she craves that and seeks feedback because she wants to know Jesus more and she wants to grow.
And so that's something I really admire about her.
And I've seen consistently over like 11 years or however long we've known each other.
So one day I'll be like you.
Yeah, I think piggybacking off of that.
I think for me, it's often hard to crave correction because it requires setting aside my pride and setting aside my feelings sometimes.
I think that can be hard for me to do, to not take things personally, which ultimately, again, is pride, which is not glorifying the Lord.
And I'm making it about myself.
And so I think reminding myself that correction and refinement is good and it's edifying is really helpful.
And asking community to speak into that is really important because if not, then we are just going to be stuck in stuck in ourselves and not glorify the Lord because we are going to be trying to build something, build a name for ourselves instead of for the Lord.
Yeah, Ashley, I would love to hear a little bit more about what Lindsay was saying.
Why?
What motivates you to crave correction?
So I think it's a habit.
Growing up, I was a gymnast.
And after every turn, I'd look to my coach to find out what I could do better, what I did differently, what I did wrong.
And I think I've applied that to lots of areas in my life where I often do want to know what I can do better.
And in this area, spiritual gifts, I guess it's just like God's all there's always opportunity to grow.
And there's always opportunity to serve God's people better.
I think like most circumstances might use one of your gifts, but every circumstance is going to have multiple needs.
And you might be gifted in one thing that's great for that circumstance, but maybe you're not gifted in something else and you kind of stumble through that piece of that circumstance.
I guess I can think of marriage ministry.
Like I'm gifted in administration and so I can get organized and I can put together the classes and I can gather the teachers and I can take good notes and share those notes and send emails.
But when someone is sitting with me sharing their story, I don't know that I'm gifted in hearing that as well and pointing them back to the Lord.
And I'm really trying to grow in that area.
And so that's just an example of all these places where we can serve God, have multiple layers to them.
And we may be great at the one and not as good at the other.
And frankly, we can grow in both problems.
Going back to craving correction, how have you in your life separated that from the desire to seek man's approval or the desire to seek God's approval?
How have you navigated that?
I don't know that I've navigated it well.
I think it probably has been motivated in a lot of ways to seek man's approval.
I think the best way that I have found to fight that is to consider the verse, well done, good and faithful servant.
And like, is this, is my heart to serve the Lord?
When I get to heaven someday, am I going to hear, well done, good and faithful servant?
And I think that thought that is often in the back of my mind, as is the people pleasing desire.
And they're in conflict with each other.
And it's a good reminder that humbles me, humbles my heart, kind of resets my heart on the things that matter.
I think what Ashley is saying also makes me think about the importance of discipleship in our lives.
And how my goal when I'm discipling someone is not to make them look more like me.
It's not to grow my strengths in them or mitigate my weaknesses in them.
My goal is to make them look more like Christ in the way, you know, Jesus is calling them to use their gifts and exercise their strengths and account for their weaknesses and love and serve other people.
And that's more likely than not going to look maybe really different than how it looks in me.
And so I think that focus on really developing people into looking more like Jesus in the way that they're created.
There's such a strong intentionality in that, that being focused on it, similarly to not getting caught up in people pleasing, helps me not get caught up when I'm in a discipleship relationship in, you know, building someone in my image and turning into that idolatry.
Because that can happen without realizing it.
And I think that's our default.
If we're not intentionally trying to be faithful and praying through it is we develop someone and then in a year or whatever, they look more like us.
And we didn't intend for that to happen, but we also maybe weren't intentionally pointing or trying to make them look more like Jesus in the ways he's created them.
So I think it was Franny at the very beginning talked about community, drawing out our gifts and calling them out.
I think it's so important in discipleship because that's how, at least for me, it's like those little reminders of what I'm actually working toward and what I'm helping people grow in.
And what Jesus is maybe going to do in their lives with their gifts.
Yeah, I think it was both of these topics comes to mind for me is accountability and just making sure that you have people in your life asking the hard questions.
So like for Ashley, if you know a tendency is to want to be lean towards people pleasing, then having someone in your life who is checking in with you on that and asking like, hey, is this glorifying the Lord or is this glorifying yourself?
And within discipleship as well, just having that accountability.
And I think at the end of the day, I've been looking at 1 Peter 4, 10 and 11 and just reminding myself that at the end of the day, all these gifts are to glorify the Lord, that God may be glorified through Jesus Christ.
And so I think having that at the heart of everything, whether that's discipleship or accountability or growing in our gifts is just really important.
Yeah, that's a great segue for us to wrap up a conversation today.
Let's go forward today, not with the mindset of the church in Corinth, who is so focused on gifts that they forgot the giver, but women whose eyes are fixed on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith.
Not striving for perfection or giftedness, but who are surrendered to the joyous work of the Holy Spirit in our lives.
What an incredible gift this is.
Thank you so much, ladies, for joining us today.
For those that are listening, thank you for jumping on into the conversation with us.
So join us next time on the Women's Cast as Annette Harrelson from our North Congregation discusses how we are called to live a life that declares and demonstrates the gospel through our pursuit of holiness.
Love is one of the greatest apologetics alongside truth.
It's going to be a good one, so make sure to listen.
Thanks for joining us today.
We'll see you next time.