The Women’s Cast

Forgiven and Set Free: An Abortion Story

Episode Summary

In this episode, our friends and leaders of Forgiven and Set Free, Brittany Brown and Pam Cobern, have a vulnerable conversation about finding forgiveness and freedom in the gospel after their abortions.

Episode Notes

Welcome back to The Women's Cast. That's short for podcast, forecast, our cast of characters, and all the casts in between.

Forgiven and Set Free is a 10-week small group study for women who have experienced abortion and are seeking the hope and healing of Christ in the context of a safe, confidential, grace-filled community. In this episode, our friends and leaders of Forgiven and Set Free, Brittany Brown and Pam Cobern, have a vulnerable conversation about finding forgiveness and freedom in the gospel after their abortions. We’re so thankful for their desire to bravely share their stories in hopes that other women would experience God's grace through the gospel like they have. 

This conversation contains personal testimony. For The Austin Stone’s position on the sanctity of life please read this paper.

Episode Transcript

Registration for Forgiven and Set Free is open—register here.

If you have questions, please reach out to women@austinstone.org.

Episode Transcription

Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hey friends. Welcome back to the Women's Cast. I'm Amanda Brown, and I serve as the equipping and women's director at our St. John congregation. And I have the joy and privilege of being your host. On today's episode, I am sitting down with two of our friends from church for a conversation that I am super, super thankful for and really humbled to be a part of. It's a conversation about forgiven and set free forgiven. And set free is a 10 week small group study for women that have experienced abortion. These groups are intended to offer hope and healing of Christ in the context of a safe and confidential and grace-filled community. And they are meant to meet the shame and the guilt that is so commonly associated with abortion, with forgiveness and freedom of the gospel. Now, this ministry has been around the Austin Stone for some time now, but we're super excited to announce that it is a newly adopted part of our women's ministry.

(01:14):
Forgiveness Set Free is a ministry that we have longed to support to a greater degree for a long time, and we're super excited that this gives us the opportunity to do just that. So a few weeks ago, our team had the chance to sit down with the ladies that lead forgiven and set free. And, um, we thought that there was just no better way to welcome them into our family than to have them on our podcast. So that's what we're doing here. The hope for our conversation today is to give you a better understanding of what forgiven and set free is all about, whether you have experienced an abortion or not. And it's also our hope that if abortion is part of your story, that this just little glimpse behind the curtain will encourage you to do the very brave thing of signing up for a forgiven and set free group. Okay, so before we get any further, I have to introduce the best part of our conversation today, and that is my friends, Pam and Brittany. Guys, I'm so, so thankful to have you both here this afternoon. So I'd love to start by having you both introduce yourselves. Um, so I'm gonna start with my friend Pam.

Speaker 2 (02:31):
Thank you, Amanda. I'm really thankful to be here. My name is Pam Coburn, and I have been a partner with the Stone for I think about 10 years, maybe a little longer than that. Uh, I have three grown children and two of them are also partners here at the Stone. Uh, different congregations. And my oldest son lives in Dallas, and he and his wife have blessed me with four beautiful grandchildren. So I'm a grandma. I am, uh, retired from being the executive director of Austin Life Care, which is now, I believe, called The Source. The Source. I get that wrong all the time. Mm-hmm. . Uh, but it's a pregnancy resource center that does amazing work here in Austin. And I actually came to that post after going through this study many years ago, um, after having an abortion when I was a freshman in college. Mm-hmm. . So, um, I have seen God do amazing things with a very shameful part of my story. Mm-hmm. . And, um, since my retirement, I have been leading the studies here at The Stone. I think we're going on about four years. Yeah. So, uh, we are really excited about kind of being under the umbrella of the women's ministry. I think we'll be able to reach a lot more people this way. Mm-hmm. and, uh, we're just thrilled to be here.

Speaker 1 (03:42):
Thanks. Thanks, Pam. I'm super glad you're here too. All right, Brittany, tell us about you.

Speaker 3 (03:47):
Hello. Hello. Um, my name's Brittany. I have been going to the Austin Stone for about two and a half years now. I moved to Austin from Charleston, South Carolina, and I work in tech sales. I have a lot of really good friends and family that are here, and I believe Austin is the place the Lord wants me to stay. Great. So's great. It's been really awesome being here. Awesome.

Speaker 1 (04:09):
Good. I'm so happy to have you here and first time meeting. I

Speaker 3 (04:13):
Know it's nice to meet you. I've heard a lot about you and maybe we're, uh, family members with well, our last names. That's right.

Speaker 1 (04:19):
Yeah. There are, there are a few

Speaker 3 (04:21):
Of us. You never know. You never know. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (04:23):
I'm so happy you're here. Okay. Brittany, I'm gonna start with you. I'd love for you to just share a little bit of your story and, um, what led you to Forgiven and set Free.

Speaker 3 (04:33):
Yeah, absolutely. I think the biggest thing to learn from talking with women about their story is none of it's easy and none of it is straightforward, right? Mm-hmm. , you don't wake up in the morning and go, I think I'm gonna run to h e b, have an abortion. Mm-hmm. , go to Chick-fil-A and go home. Right? Yeah. So mine is no, you know, simpler. It's actually pretty complicated. Yeah. So, about 15 years ago, I was a junior in college, 22 years old. Um, had been dating this guy for, I don't know, two and a half-ish years. Mm-hmm. and my brother actually came home from Iraq and killed his wife and then killed himself. So my world was destroyed. Okay.

Speaker 1 (05:17):
Mm-hmm. . I'm gonna have a second to catch up with what you just said. Mm-hmm. , you said your brother came home from Iraq. Mm-hmm. killed his wife. Mm-hmm. and his and himself. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (05:29):
Okay. Yep. Junior in college. Wow. It was terrible. Yeah, it was terrible. Yeah. Six months later I'm pregnant. Wow.

(05:38):
And because of all of that, what happened with him, my parents were outta their mind. Mm-hmm. , like not in the building, not available. Mm-hmm. not functioning. I mean, my mom basically sat down and never got back up. Right? Mm-hmm. , I no one. Mm-hmm. , absolutely no one to turn to. Yeah. I saw the pregnancy, you know, positive stick and I was like, I have to have an abortion. Mm-hmm. , there was no, you know, pausing in that there was no, I need to think about it. There was no, let me consult a Christian girlfriend 'cause I was a Christian at the that time. Yeah. Yeah. It was, I'm having it, having it done. Told my boyfriend, he first accused me of cheating on him. Mm-hmm. Which he was the first person I'd ever been with. Mm-hmm. And he was like, well, I'm not ready to be a father.

(06:30):
Well, great sir. Mm-hmm. , you know, I'm glad that you would choose to not have accountability here either. Yeah. Thanks for stepping up. Yeah. Thanks for stepping up. Mm-hmm. . Yeah. And a lot of women who come to the class experienced very similar stories. Mm-hmm. . And then I scheduled it. I went the clinic made it almost seem like you were going in for Botox. Mm-hmm. Like, welcome, so glad you're here. Have a seat. Like mm-hmm. We'll get with you in a second. Like, it was warm and friendly and like women were there that I never thought would be there. Yeah. I thought it was gonna be like dark and deep and scary and sad and women who aren't me. 'cause I don't do this. Yeah. Women who are bad do this. Women who are, you know, young or on the street or just all of those assumptions you give yourself mm-hmm.

(07:26):
because you can't imagine ever doing it. Mm-hmm. . And I was almost mad looking back that it was so happy. Air quotes, like, they just acted like it was nothing. So I go, I do it, and I wake up and I am so relieved. My first thought was, yes, no more baby. Like, it's gone. Thank God I did it. Mm-hmm. my boyfriend drove me home. He paid for it, drove me home and broke up with me. Gosh. So again, no help. Not another soul on the planet knew I had done it and I was left to deal with that grief and the grief of my brother completely alone. And it was awful. And I had done that for years. Like, it built up so much guilt and so much anger and so much shame. And one of the things I really had to work through in class was I couldn't tell you the difference between my brother's death and that grief mm-hmm. and my abortion grief. Yeah. 'cause it happened so fast. Yeah. So I would always just say, oh yeah, my brother died and I had abortion. What mm-hmm. . It just was the same trauma, but it wasn't. And that is why it took me so long. Yeah. Because it was just too overwhelming. Yeah. It's like, how do you, where do you begin? Where do you begin? Yeah. And yes, I gone to therapy. Can I ask

Speaker 1 (08:57):
Yeah. A clarifying question. When you say that you, you would say, I uh, my brother died and I've had an abortion. Were you actually sharing with

Speaker 3 (09:07):
People? Not until like five years ago.

Speaker 1 (09:10):
Oh, okay. Okay. Yeah. So just in your mind it was hard to delineate the grief Yes. Between the two. Yeah, yeah,

Speaker 3 (09:17):
Yeah. Absolutely. I had told maybe one or two friends a couple years after. And it's one of those situations where then they look at you and then you have to take care of them. Yeah. Uh, yeah. You know?

Speaker 2 (09:31):
Yeah. They don't know what to do with

Speaker 3 (09:32):
It. They don't know what to do with it. Yeah. Yeah. Same with my brother's stuff, man. I just kept that so quiet because then people look at you like, Ooh, ah, and then you have to tell them it's okay. And so it was just easier to not talk about it. Yeah. So with hi, my brother's death, and then right after the abortion I was like, okay, God, we're done here. Mm-hmm. , I fought the good fight for you. I was in youth group, I was with you all through high school. I have been a Christian since I was 11 and you did this mm-hmm. air quotes, you know, you did this to me, right. I'm done with you. Mm-hmm. . And it was one of those thoughts, now it's like, you took my brother, so I'm taking this child from you. Hmm.

(10:22):
Yeah. So it never was a situation though where I was like, Jesus Christ is not the Savior. Like I would never run around in like damn Christ. Mm-hmm. . But I also was not going to church, not praying, started to hang out with friends who weren't Christians. Because when you're around your friends who are Christians, you feel worse. Right. You feel more guilty. And then it sort of years kept going by and then it's, then I got a little more liberal with my thinking, you know? And it's easier to then turn it into, oh, it was just a group of cells mm-hmm. , oh, it wasn't a baby. Right. Right. Everybody should have the choice. It's my body, my choice. Mm-hmm. , you know, and it was easier for me to deal with up here in my brain, but in my heart Sure. I knew that was wrong Sure. The whole time. Yeah. So it was really hard to process it again. 'cause I surrounded myself with women that are just like, what do you mean? Mm-hmm. , you're fine. Mm-hmm. a big issue too is that there's two camps. Either don't have an abortion and be completely fine or have an abortion and be completely fine. Nobody acknowledges the women that have one and need help. Yeah. After. Yeah. Nobody,

Speaker 2 (11:39):
Well, we're not allowed to grieve it. No. And, and that's the one of the issues with abortion is that, you know, any other pregnancy, you know, loss mm-hmm. , um, in quotes would be grieved. Um, but we're supposed to just go on with our life. That's the whole point. Right. It's supposed to just mm-hmm. , you know, you do it and you move on with your life. Like you said, you felt relief. And that's usually the first response that you have. 'cause you've dealt with the quote problem. Mm-hmm. mm-hmm. . But that's not how we're created. Mm-hmm. , we know as women especially that that was a child. And, um, by not grieving it, it creates all kinds of other issues. Mm-hmm.

Speaker 3 (12:15):
. Mm-hmm. a hundred percent. And even going into church when I try to, I would cry every single time. And especially if they were to sing songs or mention like you were creating your mother's womb mm-hmm. , I would cry. I'd feel a, a warmth of just shame come over my body. I'd get very mad mm-hmm. and then I'd wanna run out mm-hmm. . And then when I did leave, I didn't go back for another year or two mm-hmm. until it's like, well, maybe one more time. Ugh. Mm-hmm. . And a lot of times what's funny is I would go back and it would be a sermon about babies and life. I did that for 15 years. I just, I ran, I just ran and I did, you know, it didn't go off the deep end. I swore off men. A lot of women go in the other direction where they just are with tons and tons and mm-hmm.

(13:02):
pants, nodding. I was one of those. Yes. And I was like, Nope, I'm good. Mm-hmm. boys are bad. Stay over there and I'm gonna do all this alone. Mm-hmm. . So during Covid, actually, I was just tired. Tired of running. Wow. And I was in Charleston and I found a church that was what I thought church was supposed to be. Mm-hmm. warm, welcoming, forgiving One Mother's Day. He, mother's Day is always hard. Mm-hmm. , he gave a sermon and he was like, this is not for the mothers with children in the room. This is for the women who've had lost their children. Miscarried had abortions. The ones in the room that feel like crap today. This is what this is for. Yeah. And my mind was blown. Yeah. I was like, there are churches like this. Yeah. Yes, ma'am. Mm-hmm. . And so it just started my journey again on maybe this isn't so bad mm-hmm. , maybe I can reconcile this. Had a girlfriend go with me and she was crying and I'm like, you're crying. I'm allowed to cry. . And she was like, yes. So I just sobbed and sobbed and cried and started to really work through it. Yeah. So a few things happened in Charleston and I decided to move to Austin. Hold onto your butts. My brother's wife's parents come to Austin Stone. Okay. And they, and I have the most beautiful relationship. Oh my gosh. And they're the ones that invited me to Austin Stone. Yeah. Yeah.

(14:37):
What? Yeah. And they forgave my brother. And so if they can forgive him, how can I not forgive myself? Wow. If they can love me, how can I not love myself? And that was massive. It started allowing myself to heal. Yeah. From all of it. So started coming. And it was interesting the first few times I was like, are they gonna figure out who I am? You know? Mm-hmm. , I don't wanna have to tell people, but it's been amazing. And her mom especially is my best friend. Wow. We are together all the time. Praise

Speaker 1 (15:15):
God.

Speaker 3 (15:15):
Yeah. Yeah. And she has led me to walk through my journey and relieve me of so much shame and guilt from my brother and for this.

Speaker 1 (15:25):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (15:28):
So, because I was set up with Stone and with that journey, I found a Christian therapist. And let me tell you, five years ago, if you would've said to go see a Christian therapist, I would've told you to kick rocks. Mm-hmm. and processing my brother's stuff. I was doing great. And then the abortion was the last thing, because it's the last thing anybody wants to talk about. Yeah. Right.

Speaker 1 (15:50):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (15:50):
And so she actually suggested Forgiven and set free. Okay. She was friends with Sean and she was actually one of our leaders at

Speaker 1 (15:59):
Austin Life Care.

Speaker 3 (16:00):
Okay. I did not know that. Yeah. Mm-hmm. . And the timing was hilarious. She was like, you should do this call. Sean called Sean and it was starting the next Tuesday. Wow. It was like Thursday. Yeah. So God totally had his hand in that. Yeah. And was like, come on kid, let's go. It's time. Mm-hmm. , let's, let's really work on this. Um, and so I showed up and it was truly the best decision I have ever made. Wow. Because when you make a choice like an abortion so young, you question everything else you've ever done. Yeah. You don't trust yourself to make decisions a lot of time. Mm-hmm. And so forgiven and set free and not only help me with my abortion, it helped me forgive myself of a lot of other stuff. Mm-hmm. because of the structure of the class. So it was the best decision I've ever made. Wow. And I'm able after 15 years to sit here and talk about it on a podcast. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (16:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (16:58):
What? Yeah,

Speaker 1 (16:58):
Right. Yeah. Praise God. Praise God, truly. Yeah. Okay. So, so how long ago was this that you, you, the first Tuesday night that you were a part of that

Speaker 3 (17:09):
Group? February of last year. Okay. So a year and some change ago. Okay. About 18 months. Okay.

Speaker 1 (17:15):
Yeah. So this is a 10 week mm-hmm. group. Tell us a little bit about what your experience was like. What was it like the first week? Mm-hmm. , how did you feel driving up parking, , other women mm-hmm. . Yep. And kind of what was the progression of the 10 weeks?

Speaker 3 (17:33):
Yeah. Totally nervous for one. I had never done a bible study in my whole life. Mm-hmm. again, five years ago, if I would've said, I'm gonna go to a Bible study, I'd be like, no, that's cute. Like, no, you're not. Um, just so nervous and like, everything in me wanted to not go. Yeah. I, I'm busy. Mm-hmm. , I have to wash my hair, , you know, like, just anything that could stand in my way was, I think I tore my a c l the weekend before. Right? Before, yeah. I went, that was the perfect excuse. Not

Speaker 1 (18:03):
Sure. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (18:04):
But she, um, I hobbled on in there and it's great because there was somebody waiting at the door for us. So it's not like you had to find the building or be scared or hope that you're walking to the right place. Somebody was there mm-hmm. . And then, you know, she walked us into the room and it was wonderful 'cause it was cushy and warm and mm-hmm. , uh, it was like sitting out a coffee shop essentially.

Speaker 2 (18:28):
Mm-hmm. , we were meeting at the counseling center at the time mm-hmm.

Speaker 3 (18:30):
and other girls, women come in and you're kind of looking around and you're like, you, huh? Yeah. Oh, but you look so put together, Uhhuh, and so cool. Uhhuh . Um, and there were, and nobody wants to be there. . Nobody wants to be there. Yeah. You know? Sure. The first, um, the first week a lot of tears. Yeah. You know, a lot of it's the first time some people have ever talked about it. Yeah. The second week, you give your story also really hard mm-hmm. after that week, it's, you don't wanna go back mm-hmm. . And then you start each week, the process of, you know, the guilt, anger, shame, there's like a chapter for each one of those emotions. The character of God was my favorite first chapter. Wow. Yeah. That's

Speaker 2 (19:16):
Where we start.

Speaker 3 (19:17):
That's where we start. And again, since I've been outta the Bible for so many years Yeah. I was reading through it and I'm like, so much of what I grew up in, in the church was not right. Hmm. Like, that's not who the Lord is. The Lord is loving and forgiving and he already forgave you. Hmm. Now you have to forgive yourself. Yeah. And that was so cool to read and to kind of drive home. Yeah. That point. Um, and the enemy wants you to not forgive yourself. Mm-hmm. . Yeah. The enemy wants to keep you sad and sick and feeling guilty about it all. So then each week, you know, we'd go through some things and couple chapters really met, made me mad. . And what's great about it's, you can come in and combat some of it. Mm-hmm. , it is an open discussion. Yeah. I can say now, Pam, I don't agree with that. You need to explain that one to me. I don't know if I will ever agree with that mm-hmm. , and it's okay. Yeah. Mm-hmm. , you don't have to be, it's not political at all, which is great. So you can say anything that you wanna say and you're allowed to say it all.

Speaker 2 (20:27):
It's a judgment freeze

Speaker 3 (20:28):
Though. A hundred percent judgment free. Yeah. Did

Speaker 1 (20:31):
You really feel like that?

Speaker 3 (20:32):
Yes. A thousand percent. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (20:36):
Which, because I, I know some environments like that, they might have that kind of slogan, but it, whether it's explicit in the experience that it's not judgment free or it is still like, you know, just in your own felt experience mm-hmm. that it's not judgment free, but I'm so grateful that mm-hmm. , that really was your experience. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (20:55):
Well, and I think the way that it's structured too, the first night Yeah. The, the leaders share their stories. Yeah. Um, and they're very open about their experience. And I think that that kind of lays the groundwork mm-hmm. and then that night, you know, they go home that next week and they study about the character of God, which lays the foundation mm-hmm. . And then they know that the following week that they're gonna share their stories. So we kind of, the leaders kind of model that for them mm-hmm. , but then they know they're not alone. They're there. They know that the people that are leading them through this are women that have had this experience and understand a lot of the emotions that they're feeling. Mm-hmm. . So I think that that, that really helps. Sure.

Speaker 3 (21:32):
And one thing I thought was comforting too, is there were few, uh, one person in particular older women, and it's like, man, they're still struggling. Yeah. I'm getting, after this, after 15 years, it's been 30 or 40 for them. Yeah. And I think these women are on such a pedestal, and I respect them, and I thought they are incredible. And they had one too mm-hmm. . And it put me at ease. It really did. It was like, we're all in this together.

Speaker 2 (22:01):
Yeah. And we have women in, in our group particular, that group, we had a gal who had had one pretty recent mm-hmm. , and I think she almost struggled the most through it. She Yeah. 'cause it was so fresh that Yeah. They, it's, I've had women in their seventies go through this

Speaker 1 (22:15):
Course mm-hmm. , yeah. Mm-hmm. , so,

Speaker 2 (22:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (22:18):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (22:19):
And that's so good. So move, moving on. So you had a few weeks that were tough. You didn't agree with some of the things pushed back.

Speaker 3 (22:28):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (22:28):
Um, that was somewhere in the middle.

Speaker 3 (22:30):
Mm-hmm. totally pushed back on some of it. And then the last two, I forget like the ending of the whole class, you completely mm-hmm. forgive yourself and be free of it. Yeah. And that was so powerful. Yeah. And so amazing. And afterwards I just took a really deep breath and I was like, I did this mm-hmm. , I'm good now. And I just started telling everybody, y'all, everybody knows I've had abortion now, . Yeah. So it's, and you don't have to, I mean, I'm, I'm sure some people are like, what? I'm not doing that. Yeah. Yeah. You don't have

Speaker 2 (23:04):
To, but it, it's not in the dark anymore.

Speaker 3 (23:05):
It's Right. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (23:07):
You know, it just changes how you feel about

Speaker 3 (23:09):
It. It's not something that keeps me up anymore. I can sing all the songs about your, you know, being created in the womb and not cry. Yeah. It's just, it really is the most freeing thing I've ever done.

Speaker 1 (23:22):
Oh, man.

Speaker 2 (23:23):
Mm-hmm. And one of the, the things that I have seen happen over and over in leading these groups is that God brings together all the people that need to be in that particular group, you know, and it's, there'll be somebody in there that maybe had sexual abuse in their background mm-hmm. , and there'll be another person who had sexual abuse, and you'll see them start to minister to each other. Mm-hmm. . And it's just such a beautiful thing. And even in our group, , another girl had lost a sibling. Mm-hmm. , I mean, and I, of course, when she said that, I was like, well, of course. 'cause that's how God does this, but it's just amazing how he pulls the groups together and it's just the right people that need to be there for each other.

Speaker 3 (23:58):
Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 1 (24:00):
Yeah. Something so freeing about just that to Right. When

Speaker 2 (24:03):
You, you're not

Speaker 1 (24:04):
Alone. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's so powerful. It's pretty

Speaker 3 (24:09):
Cool. And then one of the women is now one of my very best friends, because once you're in there and you've told them everything Yeah.

Speaker 1 (24:16):
, how can you not be, how

Speaker 3 (24:17):
Can you not be, talk about the groundwork for a really good relationship. Yeah. So,

Speaker 1 (24:22):
And Brittany, thank you so much for sharing your story. I know that, I know it must be vulnerable, even though you, you have experienced so much freedom Yeah. Um, to share in a, in a medium like this. Yeah. It's nerve wracking. Yeah. , I'm really thankful. And I think as someone who is hearing your story for the first time, it is so obvious that Jesus has been relentless in his pursuit for

Speaker 3 (24:50):
You. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I I tried to out run him Yeah. And it didn't work. Yeah, I

Speaker 1 (24:57):
Know. So, and it won't, it won't, it won't work.

Speaker 3 (25:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (25:01):
For the women that are listening right now and curious about what these groups feel like, can you talk to us a little bit about just kind of the details of where do these groups meet? How many people come? Are people gonna know that I sign up? What is, what is that like for a participant?

Speaker 2 (25:23):
Well, we try to keep it extremely confidential. It's all the sign up is online, so really the only people that would know is, you know, whoever is dealing with it administratively with the stone. We have several leaders that are in the church that lead the groups. We try to find a location that is somewhat private. We wanna make it, you know, like Brittany said, where it feels welcoming and, um, that they're not worried about running into somebody that they might know and feeling uncomfortable. So, uh, we really work to make it a, a comfortable situation for everyone. Mm-hmm. . Um, as I said before, you know, we, we start out with the leaders sharing their stories, and then they share their stories. Um, but it's amazing, I think because everybody is so vulnerable with each other that the groups bond very quickly. Yeah. Mm-hmm. .

(26:10):
So, uh, I'll say the first few weeks are hard. Mm-hmm. , uh, the hardest. Um, obviously, you know, you're, you're going to a Bible study to address a sin . Right, right. Mm-hmm. , that's never fun. Yeah. So I won't sugarcoat it. It's, it's hard, it's challenging. Mm-hmm. . Um, but, you know, nothing worth doing is, is ever easy. So, uh, just know that it's a very supportive group. Like I said, there's no judgment. Mm-hmm. , uh, we are there to listen and encourage, uh, and pray for these women, and we're there for them. We usually start some kind of a, a group chat so that if there's any issues during the week that they run up against that we're there for them. Uh, and as I said, it's amazing to see how in just a very short period of time, the women start really ministering to each other. Mm-hmm. . And, uh, that's one of the things I love the most about it. Mm-hmm. . Um, and you just see the change as a leader. You get to see it week by week. And I think even you being in the group noticed it. They, the room

Speaker 3 (27:07):
Gets lighter, it

Speaker 2 (27:08):
Gets lighter, and people sit a a little taller and Yeah. There's laughter mm-hmm. mm-hmm. . And, um, it's just such a joy to see and get to witness what happens when God just takes a hold of their heart and removes the guilt and shame. I always tell 'em when they come in that, you know, you always have the regret that doesn't go away, but you can, your, the guilt and shame isn't there anymore. I was very similar to Brittany after I went through it. I, I said, I felt like I had, tell me your abortion story written on my forehead, because I was being more open about it, and people were just kind of coming outta the woodwork, telling me their stories and mm-hmm. , but out of that has come just tremendous beauty. People going through these studies and being healed and just all the things that God has done with that. Mm-hmm. , you know, rid yourself of this shame and guilt allows you to serve him more and to be more open to a closer relationship with God. It's just, it's beautiful.

Speaker 1 (28:06):
Yeah. That's so good. What about, um, for the woman that is walking with a friend who has experienced an abortion, what would you

Speaker 3 (28:19):
Say to,

Speaker 1 (28:20):
To that woman that's walking with a friend who's experienced an abortion and, and is maybe considering forgiven and set free?

Speaker 2 (28:28):
Well, I would say, first of all, you're a really good friend if you know Yes. Because women don't talk about that very often.

Speaker 3 (28:34):
I would probably say, well, what you've been doing isn't working. Hmm. So try this. Yeah. If you hate it, you hate it. And if you don't, it could save your life. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (28:46):
Honestly,

Speaker 2 (28:46):
I'll tell you, we've never had anybody regret it. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (28:48):
. Yeah. Yeah. I've never had

Speaker 2 (28:50):
Anybody leave a class and not come back mm-hmm. . And I've never had anybody come back and say, you know, I'm really sad that I took

Speaker 3 (28:55):
That Yeah.

Speaker 2 (28:56):
When I went through that study.

Speaker 3 (28:57):
That's, yeah. That's pretty

Speaker 1 (28:58):
Good. .

Speaker 3 (28:59):
I would really just encourage her that she will be safe and that it is a warm, welcoming environment and Yeah. Safe and welcoming and try something else to heal

Speaker 2 (29:12):
Well, and as a friend too, I would say, you know, like I said, what the leaders do, just listen and encourage. Listen and encourage, yeah. Mm-hmm. because, uh, and pray for her to, to make that step.

Speaker 1 (29:23):
Mm-hmm. . Yeah. Anything else that you want the woman who has experienced an abortion to hear

Speaker 3 (29:34):
Me too.

Speaker 2 (29:35):
. Me too. You're not alone. Mm-hmm. , um, don't wait to get this healing. Yeah. Um, I actually spent about five years running from knowing the study existed and having it, you know, put in front of my face over and over again before I finally said, okay, Lord, you know, . And as I said before, he's done amazing things through, through it, uh, through my life. So, uh, don't hesitate, you won't regret it. Yeah. It's not easy, but, um, it's, it's worth it. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (30:08):
I wish I'd done it sooner.

Speaker 2 (30:09):
Yeah, I do too. I wish I hadn't waited those five years. I wish I'd had done it the first time I heard about it. Yeah. Those were five years that

Speaker 1 (30:16):
I didn't, I

Speaker 3 (30:16):
Wish I had heard about it. . Yeah. So now I wanna scream it from the rooftops. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (30:23):
Well that's why we're doing this today. Mm-hmm. is try to get it in front of more women to hear that we have this available and that we want the women of the Austin Stone to experience freedom in the ways that you both have. And so I'm really thankful that you've both joined us today and Brittany, for sharing your story. Thanks. We love you guys, and we're so thankful you joined us for the Women's Cast today, and we'll see you next time.