In this episode, our host Alison Mezger (Central Women's Ministry Director) chats with Barbara Sleet of our West Congregation.
The Women's Cast is the podcast of the Women’s Ministry at The Austin Stone. This year, we’re focusing on the theme of joy.
In this episode, our host Alison Mezger (Central Women's Ministry Director) chats with Barbara Sleet of our West Congregation. Barbara was diagnosed with terminal cancer and was in hospice care at the time of recording and publishing. Barbara is a hope-filled example of what pursuing Jesus and joy can look like, even—and perhaps, especially—when death is near.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hi friends. Welcome back to the Women's Cast. I'm your host for today, Allison Metzker. As you may or may not know this year, we've been talking a lot about joy at this point in this ongoing conversation. Two things really stand out to me. First, joy is really complicated. It's an emotion, it's a fruit of the spirit. It's something we're commanded to be, but it's also a gift. So it's complicated. And second, Christian joy is different than worldly joy, primarily because it isn't something based on our circumstances. For believers, our joy is informed by God's past faithfulness, and it's geared towards him making good on future promises for believers. Joy often coincides with the mundane, with suffering, and with every other human experience, even death. Today I'm joined by a very beloved sister, Barbara Sleet, to talk about joy in dying. Honestly, I feel really uncomfortable saying those words.
(01:08):
So if you feel caught off guard as well, you're not alone. Death isn't something most of us are comfortable talking about. Even more so when paired with the idea of joy, which is why this conversation is so important and why we're so incredibly fortunate to have Barbara with us. Barbara is a faithful partner at our west congregation, and she has been battling cancer for quite some time now and is in hospice care. The reality is that Barbara is going to die soon, but she's pursuing Jesus and joy to that end and into life with him after, and we get to learn with and worship with her. Barbara, thank you so much for sitting down with us today and sharing your story with the women of the Austin Stone already. I'm overwhelmed with gratitude.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Thank you for having me. Thank you for asking me. Blessing. To me also,
Speaker 1 (02:05):
That's how Jesus does things. You know, we get to bless one another. Just to give us some context, tell us, tell me a little bit more about yourself. How did you meet Jesus? What are some major kind of life milestones for you? How did you end up at the Austin Stone? Tell us a little bit more just about Barbara.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Okay, let me just, I'll just give you a point by point journey through my early life, and I was born into Christian parents. Hmm. I was born in a little town that had one red light , and the town's name is Walter World, South Carolina. And when I was five, we moved to Charlotte, North Carolina. Um, in high school I was a good student. I met my husband Bob, which back then he was called Bobby . So we got married after I graduated and after my second year of college. And we then moved to Atlanta. And then funny thing, Vietnam was going on at that time and his name came up and he, we went home for Thanksgiving and he had that letter asking him to join the army, which we decided we selected four years in the Air Force as opposed to two years in the Army.
(03:31):
And that was the beginning of our series of different moves through our marriage. And we have been known to say the first 30 years of our marriage were the hardest. Hmm. He was stationed at McGuire Air Force Base in New Jersey, and that is where our first daughter was born. We spent several years there and then moved back to Charlotte in 1971 for him, Bob, to finish college through the GI Bill and for us both to be working full-time at that time. Mm-Hmm. . So I was an executive assistant to a CEO of a large insurance and wealth agency. And I had two miscarriages in one year and that was a big Yeah. Thing. And for us. And then Erin was born the very next year, and she was born in 1975. So when we moved to, we moved from Charlotte to Houston and we lived there from 1979 to 1996.
(04:41):
And so there a good bit of time. I was blessed to be able to be a quote at home mom. Mm-Hmm. , but busiest time of my life. Sure. Because I was in Bible study fellowship. Mm-Hmm. , I was a volunteer at church and did Sunday school and youth programs. So then Bob was, was asked to come to Kansas City and at that time I continued with BSFI went into leadership and I had church activities. And then in 99 we moved to Austin and I became SF leader there for children. Then I got breast cancer in 2006. I had a double mastectomy, had a re reconstruction and, uh, radiation and chemo. And I did that. I first found out in May the end of May of 2006 and finished all of my treatment the day before Thanksgiving that year. Mm-Hmm. . And never had a problem after that was just, it was really wonderful.
(05:56):
And it was, the treatment journey was not too bad, not too long. Mm-Hmm. . Anyway, so in January of 2017, I was diagnosed with peritoneal cancer, which is sourced from the ovaries. And so I had chemo, then extensive surgery, and then the peritoneal cancer was stage four. So the cancer had then kind of metastasized Mm-Hmm. to my lymph nodes. So it was more of a lymph cancer than it was the peritoneal. I had many new chemo treatments and I had really a lot of fatigue with that from the chemo and a lot of delays. And then the cancer metastasized to my brain in 2003, and which the chemo that I was taking was not able to block the cancer from transferring to my brain. Mm-Hmm. Bob and I decided we would not have take any more treatment Yeah. And that my quality of life was most important.
(07:07):
And my three oncologists agreed. And they, they said they thought that we were being wise Yeah. To have this time to, you know, see friends and so on like that. Yeah. So what I didn't tell you is in between there, in 2018, after my first year, I had had a break from chemo and treatment for about seven or eight months. And we had an opportunity to go to the Dolemite Mountains in Italy, Northern Italy. And, um, my oncologist at that time said, we were welcome to go. Please go and to come when you come back, we'll go into another, um, set of treatments for the what had developed. That's where in the Dolomites I had my mountaintop experience, a true mountaintop experience. And at that time I was dealing with what I call chemo rummies. Mm-Hmm. . I had what they all always called chemo fog.
(08:16):
I couldn't hike like the others could hike in the mountains. So I would take the con the gondola up to the restaurant, which was all fresh food, wonderful stuff. was a great place to rest and wait for the people or my friends and Bob to come. And after their trek in the mountains, and one day we had a guide who went with the ones that hiked, they had hiked through ice and snow. Wow. And they had to hold onto cables. And they all came in that restaurant where I was waiting saying how great an experience that was. How they would never have done it if they'd known how hard when they were just overwhelmed by what they had done. And so Luca, who was the guide that guided them, looked at me and he said, Barbara, come here. And I said, where are we going?
(09:16):
And he was just, just outside the door. And we, he, I walked over to the door with him and he said, we're going up there. And I said, there's like a pinnacle there. And I said, oh, Luca, I can't do that. I'm so scared of heights and there's no railings. I feel like I could just, you know, fly off of the mountain. And he said, you will be fine. I will take care of you and you just hold onto my arm. And he gave me his arm and he said, okay, now I want you to look down. I want you to not look to the left or to the right. Mm-Hmm. , look at your first step. We'll do one step at a time. Don't look too far. And so we walked up and the trail got narrower and narrower. And then there was some steps that had been cut into the mountain.
(10:07):
And I said, could I get into the inside of this, please? He switched me around and he said, now the steps are tall and I'm gonna help you up. So he helped me get up those steps. And then we went around on another trail. The trail kind of twisted around, and then we had more steps to go up. So we got to the top and it was flat about the size of maybe a 12 by 12 room flat. And I just put my hands on my face and I started crying. And he said, don't cry, , um, you, you're safe. You're not gonna be, you are not near the edge. And I said, oh, Luca, you don't know. I said, you have given me a true mountaintop experience. 'cause I turned around 360, just the most magnificent mountains you could ever see. And it just was so clear to me that God had given me that opportunity to have that experience.
(11:04):
Mm-Hmm. . And I went over to Luca and I put my hands on his cheek and I said, Luca, when I get home, I've got cancer and it's come back and I'm going to start treatment again. So you've given me a mountaintop experience. Mm-Hmm. that I can take with me that'll help me through this new part of my journey. Mm-Hmm. . And we took pictures and, you know, Luca stood with me. And that was just an incredible experience. 'cause I came home with the thing that, the phrase that really, really helped me through the next months, because I thought I would go home and everything would go so smoothly. Mm. Because I had just had this mountaintop experience. Well, I found out that the God of the mountaintop is the God of the valley. Mm. And all my treatments got delayed because my immune system was low.
(11:57):
And so I kept reminding myself one step at a time. Yeah. Don't go too far ahead. Mm-Hmm. . And find the joy that God puts in your life today. So I took that as an adventure. Yeah. And I would find a joy each day. And I would, and if it was somebody I didn't know that really did something or spoke to me in some special way, I would say, you're my joy for the day. And they would just kind of perk up in smile. And so that was my, that kind of still does Yeah. Really encourage me to speak up and explain why I am saying You're my joy. Yeah. And to remind me that God is there and the joy is there and it's my place to look for it and to experience it, let myself experience it. So that's been my thing. Yeah. Of my adventure to go looking for God's joy. Yeah. 'cause I'm still in that one step at a time. Yeah. And don't look too far ahead. I don't know what the, the next months are gonna look like.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
Yeah. But God was so kind to give you Yeah. A guide in that moment on the mountain to remind you that you have a guide Yes. Through all of this. Yes.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
Yeah. And Jesus is my guide. So yeah. So we made the decision like in January, I think too, the end of January to start hospice where they can come to the house and help me on a few things that Sure. Give Bob a break. But in that way, I don't see any of my other doctors, which is, was hard to give up. It's hard to say. But it was hard to give up my doctors 'cause they were so wonderful to me. Yeah. And they really cared about my quality of life. Yeah. And once we told our friends and our family and that we were going on hospice, they all came out. It was like, we wanna see you and we wanna see you this time. Yeah. I think they think, well, if you're on hospice, you may probably have two more weeks. Mm-Hmm. . And that's not the case.
(14:05):
But it's been a steady flow of friends from way, way back that we've had for 50 years and a steady flow of family and steady flow of people in town Yeah. That we haven't seen in a long, long time. But they've made time for us and time for me. Yeah. And they all just love on me. Yeah. And one lady came and painted my fingernails and toenails and I mean, there people are just blessing me in so many ways that it is, it has been such a blessing. Yeah. And it feels like God is providing all that. Yeah. It's, it's the assurance of the things you can't see. And then you get to that point. So I've gotten verses that, that helped me get through all this. I was gonna ask, what, what are some of the things that, okay, so when I, you have cling to when I had breast cancer, my go-to verse was in all these things, we are more than conquerors.
(15:05):
Mm-Hmm. through him who loved us through Christ Jesus. That's runs 8 37. And people would say, oh, you're a a breast cancer survivor. And I said, I'm not a survivor, I'm a conqueror. Hmm. And through God's grace, we conquered the breast cancer. 'cause this is not related. Mm-Hmm. to breast cancer. And then the verses that I've really clung to this time was rejoice in hope. Be patient in tribulation, be constantly in prayer. Mm. And it's rejoice. The other verse was, rejoice always. Mm-Hmm. again, I say rejoice, pray continually. And the third part of that is pre continually and always be. I think it's always be thankful. Mm-Hmm. And, but the main verse this time has been Romans 15, 13, may the God of hope fill you all full of joy and peace as you trust in Him. So that by the power of the Holy Spirit, you will overflow.
(16:12):
And one translation said you'll radiate. And I like that you radiate God's hope. Yeah. That has been really important to me. That's really, that's where I am still. So that, that brings me to the other thing that I say, people would pray for me to be healed supernaturally. Hmm. And I had heard at a conference where the pastor said that all people who love and trust and called Jesus their Lord and Savior get healed. But it's either now or not yet. That's right. So I've had seven years of not yet. Mm-Hmm. . And now I think is, so I got to the point where I was saying God's will, God's way and God's timing. And and I think he is gonna take, she's gonna take Definitely take me that way. Yeah. In his will and his way and his timing. But I think the timing is just whenever it's gonna be.
(17:14):
Yeah. And it's gonna be permanent. Yeah. Gonna be forever. Yeah. That's right. Permanent healing and ever. Yeah. Yeah. That's my story. Yeah. Thank you for sharing. And so I still have the Holy Spirit and Jesus. And so it's good. Yeah. It is fun for me. 'cause I talk to people just 'cause I'm, they will listen to me. They don't mind me walking up to complete strangers in a store. Yeah. And me saying, saying something to them because of my age. 'cause women get away with things when they're older. And I'm certainly old enough to get away with things and people don't get offended with me when I'm direct. And they, they're just great. Yeah. So it's a way of just sharing what I've been able to have. Yeah. And I think that all the things that led up to this with my BSF and my other involvements in church and learning about the Lord and really got me prepared to be able to Yeah. See joy and share it.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
Yeah. It sounds like you had a really deep well of in years of investment in the things of God and people of God and knowing his word that Yeah. I'm sure had present was presently important back in those years and seasons. But it's something that comes Yeah. And really, yeah. You see it's value
Speaker 2 (18:44):
Now I, I felt like as I was going through this last seven years, you know, I was thinking God is not gonna supernaturally heal me because there are apparently things that he wants me to learn, which is like the one step at a time and don't look too far ahead. Don't get anxious of what's coming up. Yeah. Don't get anxious over all the scans and the things like that, which is normal and to do. But I had to learn to be content to wait at times. Yeah. And the, all those were learning experiences that he didn't, he was not ready. It wasn't his will to heal me supernaturally because I had too much to learn. Mm. And so I'm go in one way. I've learned a lot through this process. Yeah. And I've taken some risks and talking to people that I wouldn't have done otherwise. Mm-Hmm. maybe. And otherwise, maybe it depends on maybe my age just works into that also. Sure. But anyway, yeah. That's the way it's God has seems to have directed me. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
It sounds like he's given you increased boldness. Mm-Hmm. in sharing. Mm-Hmm. your journey, but also your faith in him. The joy you find. That sounds like you, you at least think you might not have had that otherwise.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
I wouldn't have. Yeah. I wouldn't have.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
Hearing you recount the past few years, in particular, the past seven, you're able to recognize so many things that God taught you and that you wouldn't have experienced or seen otherwise. And in a lot of ways it, when I hear you talk through that, it sounds like things that you probably knew in your brain beforehand. Yeah. Like you knew that God was sovereign or God was faithful. Yeah. And that he would guide you one step at a time. But there's a difference for all of us between knowing something,
Speaker 2 (20:38):
Knowing and fe and being
Speaker 1 (20:39):
Yeah. And feeling it and experiencing it. Knowing it with your heart, knowing it with your feet. That you have to keep walking. And it's so encouraging to hear, people
Speaker 2 (20:49):
Have asked me how I, what I do to get through that. Mm-Hmm. not to be anxious is to find verses that speak to that. Yeah. Also to listen to encouraging Christian music. To listen to pastors that I believe are strongly biblical. Yeah. They've been, because of Covid, primarily years that I didn't get to go to church Yeah. Because of my immune system. I listened to, I watched the sermons Yeah. Online. Yeah. Each week. So it is just, if I find myself with that little nagging on my shoulders Yeah. Going like, oh, why don't you put up this? You shouldn't have to put up with this. Yeah. You know, I just, I get outta here and get something. Yeah. On my mind. That's encouraging.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
That's different.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
Yeah. That it's different. And I would go to the mu music. It makes a big difference to me.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
Ministers to you. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
Yeah. It does. So I think, and then found something that I could have passion over. I was knitting and crocheting and that was wonderful. Mm-Hmm. . And I was like, I could sit on the sofa and have chemo rummies and I could make something that was beautiful and productive and be still. Yeah. And so that was another one. Be still and know that I'm God. Yeah. And but now with what's going on in my brain, I can't then crochet. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
So one step at a time still. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
Still one step at a time. I've given all my yarn away . But anyway, there's certain things that, that I know that I'm losing. Yeah. But I don't dwell on it. Yeah. I don't dwell on it. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
Have there been seasons when you think about even Barbara 20 or 30 years ago, or Barbara, in this last season of seven years, when you think about where you are now and the type of faith you have to do that one step at a time, have there been moments where you've had to really address the fear more than just anxiety, but like a fear of what God, the path that he's asking you to walk? The fear of, you know, saying goodbye to family?
Speaker 2 (23:04):
I have a fear of it's, I've heard so many people say, and it's true. I guess you don't fear dying. Mm-Hmm. But you fear of dying. Hmm. So just the journey to die. Yeah. I, the journey to be right where you Right. Where Jesus is gonna take you, take your hand. Yeah. Is not as much fearful as what you might go through to get to that point. Yeah. And so, yeah. There are times, but I try to, that's, I go back to that one step at a time. One step at a time. Don't look too far ahead. Yeah. Because I can't know what is gonna happen.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
Yeah. Well and it like you're, you keep coming back to the fact that he will have your hand. Yeah. Like he's not gonna let go of your hand now in the steps getting there. And also Yeah. Yeah. When he walks you through that he'll be with you.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
The thing that worries me or that I think about is I will be ready physically and emotionally probably, but am I ready spiritually? Mm-Hmm. Have I really, and I'm not sure. I think Bob's further along than me in his grieving, I grieve the loss of my fingers to be in my energy and stamina to be able to Mm-Hmm. Do the things that I would like to do. So I do have some loss there. Yeah. And I just can look at this hand and see loss. Mm-Hmm. . But, and this arm is much, feels heavier. Mm-Hmm. . And my head gets heavy and it's kinda Yeah. Wonky at times. . Yeah. But it's like, how much worse is it gonna get, Lord. Yeah. And, but if I made it through seven years of chemo, radiation, hospitalizations, surely God will get me through. Yeah. Whatever it is that he's got planned for me. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
That's
Speaker 2 (24:54):
Right. Before he takes me home. Yeah. And, you know, so I've got some of my friends that I really trust and have said a couple of times, I'm almost kind of jealous. Hmm. 'cause I would love, I would love to be thinking that soon I would be walking to Jesus arms. Hmm. Yeah. We'll see,
Speaker 1 (25:13):
That is the right perspective.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
Yeah. God has his plan. Yeah. And I want, I just wanna be ready. Yeah. And there's ways that I am ready. Yeah. But I'm not sure I'm totally ready. Yeah. To Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Bob and I are talking about it. We are talking about, we're being open with our friends, we're talking about grieving and my, our daughters are fully aware of what I'm going through. Yeah. And so we're not, we're trying to be open Yeah. And vulnerable and transparent through all this. Yeah. Yeah. And hopefully it's not gonna be as scary as most people think. Yeah. Yeah. So we'll see. Yeah, we'll see.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
And you're not alone in, in walking through any of it. Obviously you've got Jesus, but you also have the people around you, your family, but also your church family.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
It's hard to get cared or get frustrated with not knowing what's coming up Yeah. And how it will work out. Yeah. When you have so many people coming and just,
Speaker 1 (26:18):
You know Yeah. Surrounding you.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
Yeah. Being present with all that Yeah. Makes a big difference than worrying about what's coming next. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
One step at a time. So I've had
Speaker 2 (26:29):
A lot of practice of that. Yeah. And you have That's a good lesson. And then what I've read and what I know and what I've seen, God is faithful. Yeah. And he's been faithful through all these years. Even since the breast cancer. Mm-Hmm. . And so I can count on him being faithful.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
Barbara, I think you've answered this in a number of ways already with all the different things that you've taught us. But I just wanna ask real specifically, 'cause we, we kind of talked about it when I was talking to you and Bob about having this conversation. You're very aware of just the young church that you're a part of. Mm-Hmm. . And y'all have been so faithful in serving as deacons and being invested in this body, but knowing that so much of this church is filled with 2030s, forties, you know, some fifties. But when you think about where you are in your journey, is there anything specific that you want to encourage this young church towards?
Speaker 2 (27:29):
Yes. Yes. To really look forward to walking with people that are going through hardships. Mm. Either health wise or just of age. Yeah. Difficulties with hardships in their age to not assume everything is fine. Yeah. And not assume that they're gonna come say, I need your help. Mm. If we just had more people that were, that had a sensitivity towards that. Yeah. And there's just a lot of people that are just in the elder years Yeah. That are lonely. Yeah. I think that would be great. Yeah. Is for the church to really realize that it is getting a little bit older. Yeah. And there needs to be some attention. Yeah. And not just to the younger. Yeah. Just keep it, keep up with the younger, but
Speaker 1 (28:22):
Sure. Yeah. If we're really are meant to be a family Mm-Hmm. , then that means we have to function as a family. Yeah. And that means all of us as just saints. It means staff, it means elders, deacons. And it means celebrating when the new baby comes home. Mm-Hmm. . But it also means walking with our older brothers and sisters and our aunts and uncles in the faith when Yeah. When kids are getting married or when they're battling cancer or something else is going on. Yeah. So you've given us a lot to think about and just Absolutely. In terms of what that can and should look like. I'm grateful that the experience you have had has been one that's been surrounded by people. It has been good meeting both spiritual needs. Mm-Hmm. , but also really practical ones. Right. That's how we should be. Yes. Caring for one another. You've said it a couple times his way and his
Speaker 2 (29:09):
Will. His will his way and his and his timing. That's
Speaker 1 (29:12):
Right.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
Well, Barbara, thank you. Thank you. Truly your words and getting a glimpse into the story. God is writing for you and has written for you in this season of earthly life and also the decades before is such a clear picture of his faithfulness. Like it really is you, in your words and in your life, bear witness to the reality that his joy is in us and that his joy transcends our circumstances. Yes. And will day soon be made complete. Yeah. So we love you and are really grateful for you.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
Oh, great. Thank you. I love you all too. Love that. Our church and all of the people that have come around me has made a huge impact on my life, in our life together. So thank you. Thank you. It's been a, a blessing.